Curse

Tyla · Jan 21, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

riding wurm is much easier and faster. how is using a set of wurm skill differs from using a set of ursa skill? both are button smashing frenzy, the only difference is the wurm have a hard res, and we dont need 2 more monks to follow around in desolation. Seriously, PvP has nothing to do with ursa, it doesn't even effect them in anyway. old-man does not understand new things, thus they get afraid of technology and generation.

you actually can get rich from doing that over and over again, what could you get from ub? same, money, title, loot.

Wurm's are limited to one part of the game, unlike ursan.
Agreed, wurms don't contribute to learning the game: BUT IT'S ONLY A SHORT PART OF THE GAME.

Also: UB is usable ANYWHERE, and the wurm is bound to one area only - the desolation.

To the "PvP has nothing to do with ursa" comment, you got what i said wrong...what I ment was PvPers look down on PvEers having no skill, and ursan just makes them think "pfft, proven..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

And in the PUG you are talking about players aren't introduced to a wide variety of builds and skills either. They are only introduced to the very specific builds leetist jerks find suitable for the run. These people don't learn creativity or any real skill either, they only learn how to run the skills they are told are acceptable and nothing else.

Sure you aren't talking about Holy Trinity? Or are you talking about people who run incredibly terrible skills on their bar when they are actually being helped?

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

you actually can get rich from doing that over and over again, what could you get from ub? same, money, title, loot.

Same argument, you cant use ursa in desolation.

There's actually still quite a big difference. Junundu is limited only to the Desolation. UB is not. What you get from using Junundu is only the loot and titles that are available in the Desolation. UB you can just put in your pocket, boo-bam, use it anywhere you'd like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

have faith in other player, you just assuming they are noob because they are using ursa.

I'm not. I'm asking you to not speak for everyone when you say "we know how to play our profession", because not everyone who uses it does.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Wurm's are limited to one part of the game, unlike ursan.
Agreed, wurms don't contribute to learning the game: BUT IT'S ONLY A SHORT PART OF THE GAME.

Also: UB is usable ANYWHERE, and the wurm is bound to one area only - the desolation.
Sure you aren't talking about Holy Trinity? Or are you talking about people who run incredibly terrible skills on their bar when they are actually being helped?

UB isn't really usable anywhere, especially at energy denial places like some dungeons, have you see bears running around in desert?! NO

the idea of "learning the game" is really abstract. there is no precious definition.
who ever said that you can't learn the game while using UB? Learning differs from person to person, and you just shouldn't use your standard to evaluate all other people. With this said, you should stop assaulting UB users, we really don't care whether or not we are learning the game or not. we only know that it is funner to see boss go down faster then to get wiped out by bosses.

@Bryant Again
stop using your twisted and broken logic to argue. it just wouldn't work. clear up your thoughts and come back later.

really, hasn't it ever comes to you why you see more people in desolation farming points instead of other places? simple answer, wurms are much easier and faster, with that set of skills given, its the easiest and fastest way to kill 4 bosses and resign. really, what big of the difference is the loots in desolation compares to the loots all over the world? its the SAME.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you are concerning economical issues, go start a thread on temple hm
if you are concerning other people getting titles, go start a thread on desolation ss/lb farm
if you are concerning players not getting l33t pr0 skills, i suggest you to care more about your local politics.
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crom The Pale · Jan 21, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Efficiency is a terrible thing in a game...when it is the only scale by which the game or those playing it are judged.

In GW there are only a handfull of efficient builds for each proffesion, while other builds will work they simply are not as efficient as the small core set of builds that people accept as perfect.

This drive for efficiency forces players to abbandon skills that do not meet the highest value for thier build. If not they face riddicul and name calling from other players or are forced to play solo.

For example each proffesion has roughly 30 Elite skills. Creating a build for each Elite skill should give you 30 builds that are all roughly equal or balanced in purpose.

It does not however what you wind up with is around 4-6 builds that are far superior to all the rest, and by a large margine. Some of the 24-26 remaining builds will accomplish the exact same as those top 4-6 but at a higher cost, meaning they are less efficient are are abandoned by almost all players.

Even when you factor in that there are many builds for each Elite skill, you still wind up with 4-6 builds that are at the top of the pile and everything else is discarded as not efficient enough to use.

Ursan Blessing is the skill that sits atop all of those builds. While each proffesion may have 1-2 builds that are the equal of UB, some even superior, since it is better than most all other builds players choose it out of simplicity and efficiency.

Give players more to choose from and they will choose to be creative, bordom is the real enemy that we all battle when we log into GW!

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

really, hasn't it ever comes to you why you see more people in desolation farming points instead of other places? simple answer, wurms are much easier and faster, with that set of skills given, its the easiest and fastest way to kill 4 bosses and resign. really, what big of the difference is the loots in desolation compares to the loots all over the world? its the SAME.

The loot is the same, eh? Last I recalled, Mallyx's weapons didn't drop in the Sulfurous Wastes.

I don't care that people are farming the Domain of Anguish or what people are doing in their Junundus. I care about the integrity of the game. It's not like UB applies only to DoA, it applies to the whole game. It's the fact that Domain of Anguish, which by many consider to be the most challenging area in Guild Wars, now takes little effort to what it used to be that's distressing - and if the Domain can be trumped without as great of a hassle, then that means that the rest of the Guild Wars universe will not provide much challenge at all.

And if you continue to call my logic "broken", at least tell me why that is.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The loot is the same, eh? Last I recalled, Mallyx's weapons didn't drop in the Sulfurous Wastes.

I don't care that people are farming the Domain of Anguish or what people are doing in their Junundus. I care about applies the integrity of the game. It's not like UB applies only to DoA, it to the whole game. It's the fact that Domain of Anguish, which by many consider to be the most challenging area in Guild Wars, now takes little effort to what it used to be that's distressing - and if the Domain can be trumped without as great of a hassle, then that means that the rest of the Guild Wars universe will not provide much challenge at all.

And if you continue to call my logic "broken", at least tell my what that is.

and i thought the whole game was suppose to be challenging, not just some area. if temple hm are dominated by monks, then perhaps they should also recieve a nerfing. after all, hm does stands for hard mode.

i fail to see why you keep stressing over DoA. just as i always said, let people choose what they wished to do. How can you fail to see why so many people chose to use UB in DoA? because it will work. Similarily, you NEVER see people using UB in temple HM, why?

because 600 mo + smiter is better, easier, and you don't have to do anything except pay at boss and pick up loots. (at least u have to spam keys in DoA)

You seems to be simple minded or ignorant, keep on avoiding the whole big picture. You apply things that you think isn't fair, while ignoring the things that could bring you advantage. such as TEMPLE HM

Racthoh · Jan 21, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

UB isn't really usable anywhere, especially at energy denial places like some dungeons, have you see bears running around in desert?! NO

There is one area in the game that could possibly frontload 58 points of energy denial to kick one person out of bear form and that is one of the last rooms of The Deep. 58 being the maximum amount of energy a warrior, who has the lowest base energy, could achieve with equipment alone. Multiple Shiro'ken Rangers at Raisu Palace mission in HM could probably do the same, maybe.

I'm not sure what you mean by the desert though. I can't think of any energy denial there besides the Quicksand spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

the idea of "learning the game" is really abstract. there is no precious definition. who ever said that you can't learn the game while using UB?

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

With this said, you should stop assaulting UB users, we really don't care whether or not we are learning the game or not. we only know that it is funner to see boss go down faster then to get wiped out by bosses.

From this some definitives can be drawn from what learning the game is. In this case it would be the knowledge of an area and using that to form proper skillbars and tactics for the task at hand. If that boss is a caster bring a source of daze and shut it down. The boss is a physical then carry a source of weakness, blinds, or blocks. AoEs killing us? Maybe we should spread out.

You can learn the game, somewhat, by using Ursan. You can learn patrol patterns, how to chain knockdowns with your other Ursans, and how to chain your weakness shout with other Ursans. Once you stop using Ursan however, all you've taken from that experience is how patrols work. How about your equipment? The only weakness of the bear is letting your energy drop to 0, or Distracting Shot/Diversion/etc... on Ursan Strike. If you're not playing with a high energy set (at the very least on one of your four sets) then you haven't learned to optimize your equipment for the bear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's the fact that Domain of Anguish, which by many consider to be the most challenging area in Guild Wars, now takes little effort to what it used to be that's distressing - and if the Domain can be trumped without as great of a hassle, then that means that the rest of the Guild Wars universe will not provide much challenge at all

As is my understand there were no groups capable of defeating Mallyx himself without resorting to a glitch to kill him up until a few months before EOTN's release.

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

i fail to see why you keep stressing over DoA. just as i always said, let people choose what they wished to do. How can you fail to see why so many people chose to use UB in DoA? because it will work. Similarily, you NEVER see people using UB in temple HM, why?

A well-balanced and cooridinated team will work, as well - and it's been working since DoA came into play (well at least shortly after). People just use UB because it's easier on so many levels: it's simpler in execution, in setting up, in use, and in coordination.

People bring up DoA complaining about UB simply because the Domain of Anguish is revered as being the hardest area in Guild Wars. As I've just stated in my previous post, if a pug is able to complete the stages of the Domain without much hassle, the rest of the game is simplified.

And before I make a huge assumption, what is this "Temple Hard Mode" farm you speak of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

As is my understand there were no groups capable of defeating Mallyx himself without resorting to a glitch to kill him up until a few months before EOTN's release.

Well I done been schooled.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And before I make a huge assumption, what is this "Temple Hard Mode" farm you speak of?

prehaps your knowledge of GW isnt as much as i expected.

Yichi · Jan 21, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well I done been schooled.

Apparently the school did not have any grammar taught there.

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Apparently the school did not have any grammar taught there.

Noes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

prehaps your knowledge of GW isnt as much as i expected.

I asked you nicely and you instead degrade me. Perhaps you are running out of things to hold onto?

Yichi · Jan 21, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And before I make a huge assumption, what is this "Temple Hard Mode" farm you speak of?

He's probably referring to using the wurms to farm the temple of the monoliths quest for LB points.

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

He's probably referring to using the wurms to farm the temple of the monoliths quest for LB points.

Well he did mention something about being able to solo it all as a monk or something. Aside from that I dunno what other temple there would be...but I hope that's not the one I'm thinking of.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

anyways, i suppose you don't have EotN, which makes me wonder are you anti-UB because you don't have one?
"Jealousy is a deadly sin" -the crucible, arthur miller

temple hm = temple of the damned, hardmode where a solo monk with a hench can do the whole dungeon, while they charge players from around 2k to attach the run to get chest rewards and loots.

Bryant Again · Jan 21, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

anyways, i suppose you don't have EotN, which makes me wonder are you anti-UB because you don't have one?

And there goes your credibility. That Aside:

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

temple hm = temple of the damned, hardmode where a solo monk with a hench can do the whole dungeon, while they charge players from around 2k to attach the run to get chest rewards and loots.

...Just that? I wasn't aware that was the name it was given. I make more profitable farm runs in Hard Mode on my Rit.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And there goes your credibility. That Aside:

...Just that? I wasn't aware that was the name it was given. I make more profitable farm runs in Hard Mode on my Rit.

once again, your broken logic leads you off topic. This is about ursa not temple hm. they actually get their base reward of 1.5k + 12k from each other members, alone with chest loots of 3 items, depending on what item it dropped, under 10 or so minutes.

anyways, if you don't ever have tried EotN, then prehaps you shouldn't have ever started sharing your biased opinion.

Ruby Lightheart · Jan 21, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Will they EVER fix the skill Winter?????? :S

not in this lifetime it seems.

Overall..the changes are ok i guess. Though im disappointed Never Rampage Alone wasnt worked on. Its got a huge cost for rangers (25 and has to be recase every 15-23 seconds) putting it up there with Quickening Zephyr which if im nto mistaken is the only other 25 cost ranger skill.

These need to be looked into as their functionality does not warrant such a high cost.

HawkofStorms · Jan 21, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

/me uses "channel moderator attack"

This isn't an Ursan thread, even though all skill balance ones invitably turn into one. Can we try to keep it focused on the "Guild Wars Skill Updates Jan. 17th 2008?"

mr_stealth · Jan 21, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlynoob

once again, your broken logic leads you off topic. This is about ursa not temple hm.

Weren't you the one repeatedly bringing up temple HM?

Temple HM farm enables ONE profession to easily beat ONE part of the game. UB allows ANYONE to do the same for nearly ANYWHERE in the game. While both might deserve to be fixed/nerfed/balanced/whatever you want to call it, UB is the one having a much, much greater negative effect on a large portion of the game. The same can be said about ursan vs junundu.

So many people say that the "holy trinity" being the only ones accepted into elite areas is a problem, and I do agree with them. But at least the trinity allows for some diversity in builds. Now, UB has condensed elite areas down to a "holy duo" of ursan and monk, which using the same logic, is even worse. 75% of the party is only accepted if they are capable/willing to use UB. This just works to make the game stale and boring, with 75% of players in elite missions all running the same build. If changes to skills are needed to keep the game "fresh", why should ursan be allowed to continue to dominate places like DoA.

deadlynoob · Jan 21, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_stealth

Weren't you the one repeatedly bringing up temple HM?

Temple HM farm enables ONE profession to easily beat ONE part of the game. UB allows ANYONE to do the same for nearly ANYWHERE in the game. While both might deserve to be fixed/nerfed/balanced/whatever you want to call it, UB is the one having a much, much greater negative effect on a large portion of the game. The same can be said about ursan vs junundu.

So many people say that the "holy trinity" being the only ones accepted into elite areas is a problem, and I do agree with them. But at least the trinity allows for some diversity in builds. Now, UB has condensed elite areas down to a "holy duo" of ursan and monk, which using the same logic, is even worse. 75% of the party is only accepted if they are capable/willing to use UB. This just works to make the game stale and boring, with 75% of players in elite missions all running the same build. If changes to skills are needed to keep the game "fresh", why should ursan be allowed to continue to dominate places like DoA.

again, another simple minded person who only thinks of themself
first of all, from looking at your profession... i sense biased opinion dashing out from your face.
- even if you can only solo at temple of the damned, don't you already feel rich enough?
the same reason goes for why people mostly ursan DoA. note that we COULD UB everywhere, but we only UB DoA. It only takes one line of code to malfunction the whole program. It DOESNT matter which causes more damage, if both are at false, both deserves to be fixed. Same applies to everything. If monks are ridiculously rich from soloing temple since the beginning of EotN, maybe some sort of "fairness" ought to be carry out by A-net. If it is not what monks desired, maybe they should just back out and heal other bears.

once again, everyone holds their own choice, if you cant find non-ursan party, go make one yourself. I heard enough whining saying that xx% couldn't find party....... i suggest you to private message zwei2stein, bryant again, and some other anti-ursan people to form your own party, we UB user doesn't care how much you like to die to bosses.

aside from temple hm, i know there are still many people who like to solo fronis. EotN making GW unbalance is a fact, there is no point of keep stating the obvious. It has already been too late to make things balance again (unless reroll and disable EtoN)